Marcel Ames [00:00:00]: I've had someone tell me to to remove myself from my photos. And this was somebody who was black. Remove myself from my photos because I would not be perceived as a luxury brand if they saw that it was someone black. I was like, you gotta be kidding. This is supposed to be, like, a mentor at the time. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:15]: Black on black crime. Marcel Ames [00:00:16]: Yeah. You know, I was like, what? And, you know, and that and and that was that was really toxic. Hello. I'm Red. Tiff [00:00:27]: And I'm Tiff. And we're the fashion geeks. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:29]: Trying to make New York Tiff [00:00:30]: and the world Reginald Ferguson [00:00:31]: New York is the world. Tiff [00:00:32]: A little flyer, one outfit Reginald Ferguson [00:00:34]: And podcast. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:35]: At a time. I'm a native New Yorker, been here all of my life, which means I am from one of the world's centers. But more importantly, one of the fashion capitals. I'm sure by dental location, it has probably affected the importance of style and fashion in my family. But what if you're not from a fashion center? Does it mean that you can't be on the level of a New York or London or Paris? What if you're from the South? Other than Matlock rocking the Sears upper suit, can you be taken seriously? Has he even taken seriously? Essentially, can you be Dixie Fly? Hello. This is Reg Ferguson, fashion geek number 1. How are you? Welcome to the ride. Thank you so much for listening. Reginald Ferguson [00:01:34]: I'm a men's fashion consultant here in New York City, and I help fashion challenge men go from confused to confident. If you ever found yourself staring at the closet and not knowing what to wear or if the idea of shopping for clothes makes you feel physically ill, then this is the show for you. My goal with every episode is to help make looking good feel easy. If you ever want my help, email me at regnyfashiongeek.com for a consultation. If you have a friend who's looking to level up his fashion style wardrobe game, please share an episode with them. While you're at it, if you dig the show and haven't already left us a rating and review, please consider doing so now. Your shares, ratings, and reviews help us grow the show and help us get the best possible guests and help more men dress their best. Today, we're going to talk with Marcel Ames, who is in Richmond, Virginia, and we're going to talk about something that the everyday men should have in their wardrobe. Reginald Ferguson [00:02:39]: We're gonna talk about bespoke and made to measure tailored clothing. Marcel in the building. How are you? Marcel Ames [00:02:47]: I'm good. I'm well. Thank you. How are you? Reginald Ferguson [00:02:49]: I'm hanging in, man. It's, it's Friday. Marcel Ames [00:02:52]: It is it is thank goodness it's Friday. Right? Tell him tell him to kick back, crack one open, and relax, man. Thank you for having me. Reginald Ferguson [00:03:01]: Oh, no. Absolutely, man. Yeah. If we were doing video, I would have cracked one open. Marcel Ames [00:03:09]: Technically, you're just gonna still crack one open. Reginald Ferguson [00:03:12]: Yes, yes. But unfortunately, with the with the home studio setup Hey. That, that you and I talked about on the DL Yes. I'll have to do that after. Marcel Ames [00:03:22]: After. Hey. Reginald Ferguson [00:03:23]: Yeah. No worries. Now, yeah, it's not a it's not a good look. So before we go into our topic, please tell us. So what do you Marcel Ames [00:03:37]: do? Reginald Ferguson [00:03:40]: So what do you Marcel Ames [00:03:46]: So what do you what do you I am a designer, is the title that I assume, but, in all honesty, I do everything. You know, owner of 10 of pentacles, which I guess I consider more of a a design house. So, you know, my role is I'm a I'm sort of a solopreneur, I guess you would call me. Sure. And do every aspect from the business, from, you know, coding the website to designing to the shipping, fulfillment, marketing, every single aspect of it, as many, you know, newer brands do. But, you know, my my the the title I like to use the most is as designer, of the brand. Reginald Ferguson [00:04:37]: Straight to the point. Yes. And can you elaborate of what 10 of Pentacles is? And I want to keep it real with you. I've been following you on the Gram for a while Marcel Ames [00:04:48]: on the Reginald Ferguson [00:04:48]: most to you probably because Marcel Ames [00:04:49]: you know we Reginald Ferguson [00:04:50]: have thousands of followers. So, you know, this one guy from New York, you're like, who's that? Marcel Ames [00:04:55]: I appreciate it. Thank you, man. That means mine. Reginald Ferguson [00:04:58]: No. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not blowing smoke. Yeah. I followed your account a while ago because I learned about you actually through a magazine article. Marcel Ames [00:05:06]: Oh, wow. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:07]: Okay. And then the reason why I asked you on is that I do a lot of Clubhouse now. Mhmm. And you were in Greg's room of No Man Walks Alone. Marcel Ames [00:05:21]: Shout out to No Man Walks Alone. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:23]: Right. And we're going to talk about that probably eventually in this episode. Marcel Ames [00:05:28]: Sure. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:28]: And I was like, oh, yeah, I totally know who this guy is. I followed him and I've read about him. So big shout out to Clubhouse. Marcel Ames [00:05:37]: And Shout out to Clubhouse. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:39]: And here we are. But I'm gonna keep it real with you. Marcel Ames [00:05:41]: Uh-huh. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:42]: I thought it was x of pentacles for a long time. Marcel Ames [00:05:46]: So alright. Let's get to the bottom of that. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:49]: Yes. Marcel Ames [00:05:50]: As a newer brand, as, you know, someone that is continuing to to try to get traction, you know, I'll admit, it's it's a bit of a difficult name. It comes from a tarot card for those of you. Reginald Ferguson [00:06:00]: Right. So I did my research. Marcel Ames [00:06:02]: Yeah. I'm going, hey. Reginald Ferguson [00:06:04]: So this, yeah, this x of pentacles. That's interesting. I was like, yeah. Like x man. Marcel Ames [00:06:10]: Yeah. Like the tarot card, man. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, you know, I and I've actually used used it sort of interchangeably in conversation with people for the simple fact that if you were to Google 10 of pentacles, like t e n, you know, if I were to be in conversation with you and say, oh, my brand's 10 of Pentacles, you went back to Google it, you would come up with a tarot card. And, you know, unless you use some sort of specific, keywords like 10 of pentacles clothing or something like that. So I would say x of pentacles to people so that, you know, they got home or jumped on their phone and wanted to find me on on the gram or whatever, and they type in x of pentacles, they find me. But it is you know, formally, it is 10 of pentacles. Marcel Ames [00:06:58]: So Gotcha. Hope that hope that clears it out. Reginald Ferguson [00:07:00]: No. Absolutely. So much so. Like I said, I'm a research guy. That card specifically, and I'd love for you to elaborate about why you chose it. It represents wealth and long term success. Marcel Ames [00:07:13]: Mhmm. For starting out, even before I had the brand, I had kinda like this, tarot reading. And, you know, it was, like, during a very, very turbulent time for me, and I was just kind of sort of grasping for straws, honestly, and, you know, wanting some kind of clarity. And I've, you know, always been a fan of the esoteric, obviously. And so, you know, I had a tarot reading. I've done dowsing, you know, dowsing pendulum things before and all kinds of different things. But, did a tarot reading, and it was advised to me to reflect upon this 10 of pentacles card. This card kept showing up for me. Marcel Ames [00:07:55]: So I had that, you know, kinda going. And the logo, is another is actually comes from a Hindu meditation called the, tatapas, and represents the process of manifestation. So it was basically like a sort of a creative visualization exercise where, you know, you would have these symbols, so this circle, the triangle, the crescent, and the square, that represented elements, but represented this process of manifestation. So the circle being thought or a vision of something, the triangle being, emotion, passion, desire, the crescent being, you know, like fluidity, being able to, adjust like water and, sort of be able to let go of things in an amicable way, and then, you know, obviously doing, like, physical work. And you get to the square and, which represents earth, and that is the actual, like, physical, tangible manifestation or outcome of this vision. So attaching all those things together, and, you know, I had that, like, carved into a wooden box before I even before this brand even existed. That was just a personal part of me and, sort of, like, my own personal ethos for how I I've viewed life and kind of wanted to operate. So when we pair those two things together, you know, that was that was already there for me. Marcel Ames [00:09:23]: So naturally, like, in starting the brand, it was, like, boom. Already had. I had my logo. I had I had the name. And, it was just kinda going up from there. Reginald Ferguson [00:09:33]: So you really took 2 philosophies and combined them? Marcel Ames [00:09:39]: Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:09:41]: And again, that logo is the circle, triangle, crescent, square. And those represent in order, I believe, air, fire, water, and earth. Is that correct? Marcel Ames [00:09:53]: Correct. That is correct. It is. Yeah. You know, it's it's one of those sort of reflective, I guess, positive, cards in the deck that, you know, for me stood for, sort of this reflective way. Like, if you look on the card, you'll see, like, this old man and sort of a family, and there's, like, a castle in the background, and there's, like, you know, wheat and things growing. And it it kinda stood, I guess, for me, like, acquiring or building, building wealth and not just not just necessarily material wealth, but, materializing certain things in your life and being able to reflect on them and enjoy them. You know, we we often work so hard in our lives and, and, you know, never stop to smell the roses, so to speak, or, you know, some people are sort of adverse to, you know, maybe buying things that they enjoy or taking trips or, you know, doing things. Marcel Ames [00:10:55]: It's like, okay. We work so hard. We need to actually enjoy ourselves. And there was sort of a parallel with that and sort of my, kinda growing philosophy, like, you know, just from me being my own, like, kind of menswear nerd, for several years. And it was like, you know, when I was going through that journey and first starting out, I was like, okay, I wanna know what is the best of the best? What does something good look like? How is that made? What makes something great? You know, what what makes something well made, well thought out? Why why are these things good? Who makes them? How have they done? That that whole kinda thing. And so there was kind of a a parallel between that where it was, like, with this brand, you know, when people kind of reach that moment of, alright. I'm tired of shopping at, you know, malls maybe or, you know, buying things to kinda wear out after a season or, you know, don't look good or whatever the case may be, whatever your reasoning is for wanting to sort of step up into something, different. And, you know, like you said in the beginning, like, you wanna elevate your style, so to speak. Marcel Ames [00:12:03]: That was kind of what I what I envisioned and has always been my model. Like, I'd rather spend a bit more for something that is, better quality and, you know, looks better and fits me and, you know, kind of checks all these boxes off. And so that was kind of the, the parallel. But that that card, what did I get? So the the the because the logo and the actual brand name are are kind of 2 different Reginald Ferguson [00:12:32]: things. Okay. Why did you decide to do a tarot reader? Marcel Ames [00:12:41]: I, I think I, again, I think I was, like, kinda grasping for something outside of myself. I think I was looking for some sort of external guidance, And if not even guidance, just something to give me, maybe some sort of clarity or, you know, something hopeful to look to. Like, you know, a lot of crazy shit had gone down during that time. So I was really mentally in this sort of numb space, and and just didn't have much to hold on to at the time. And so that, you know, that be those sorts of things, you know, the esoteric and all those have always been very, like I said, personal and important to me because, you know, there have been many times when me going into that space and, you know, maybe things I've read or experienced and has always sort of lifted me up in a way, almost like restoring a sense of power to myself in a way. So, you know, me doing the the tarot reading, I think, was just, like, this natural inclination I had. Had. Like, okay. Marcel Ames [00:13:51]: Let me, like, have somebody throw some cards for me. Like, I need to get I need to get to my subconscious here, like, you know, which is which is how I view them. Not that they're this, like, it's this magical, you know, mystical force above that's controlling these things, but, you know, more so looking at things like, you know, tarot cards or, you know, pendulums or whatever tools people use as tools to sort of access the subconscious, the same way people would hold dowsing rods back in the day to find, you know, well water. Like, it was a sort of a subconscious tool. So, yeah, that was that was why I went in that direction. Reginald Ferguson [00:14:29]: So how did it feel coming out of that specific tarot reading being delivered that card, and knowing that's the card for you? Marcel Ames [00:14:41]: In all honesty, part of me was was hopeful about it, you know, because it was it was, like, a a a great card, And it was still something that I had to research and look into to really be able to reflect on it. And there was a part of me that was skeptical and was just like, Okay, whatever. If if anything is you know, this is just entertaining at the very least. You know, it was I was half and half. It was it was, again, you know, it was a weird space. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:15:18]: The name itself if you compare it to other brands, let's say, in the menswear space, very distinct. Did you have any trepidation about launching the brand under this under this name? Marcel Ames [00:15:33]: Of course. Of course. Oh, okay. Yeah. I Reginald Ferguson [00:15:35]: mean Well, please please explain. Marcel Ames [00:15:38]: I think I this was a part of that headspace where, like, you know, starting out, you know, wanting because, you know, the the the basis of my brand is, like, everything is very personal to me. Everything comes with a story. Everything has some sort of history or relevance to something in my life at some point in time. And so, you know, with this sort of thing being important to me, it's not always something that I I put out there, especially in the beginning. You know, me being into, you know, like, this sort of alternative spirituality, you know, esoteric space, all that kind of stuff. And I was worried, like, okay. Is this gonna seem weird to people? Would this be offensive? Is this gonna put people off? Or, you know, the the name is kinda long. Like, you know, I've I've gone back and forth on that too. Marcel Ames [00:16:29]: Like, okay, do I just change it to something else? Like, I you know, so there there were all these things kinda going in my head where I was, but also a need to feel like I needed to stand out. I needed something to kind of stick out of the crowd, you know, even though I felt like things I offered and things I plan to offer would be, of a, you know, substantial quality or, you know, would get to a substantial quality, I still needed kinda something to, like, kinda make people be like, okay. Marcel's here. Like, you know, like, I I wanted something to stick out. So, I just kinda I I rolled with it, but, you know, in the beginning, like, that 1st year, 1st 2 years, maybe even 3, it was something I was careful about. I was like, Okay, I can't put too much. You know, I can't do anything spooky. I can't do anything. Marcel Ames [00:17:22]: Like, there's there's too, you know, too out there. Like, you know, again, I'm in the south, so, you know, very heavy, like, you know, religious followings and that sort of thing here. And I I'd even had people tell me, like, oh, that sounds like the devil to me. And it's like, okay. It's it's not, but, you know, so that, you know, there was there was always that and, I guess, just kind of wanting to play it safe. And that was sort of a a recurring theme for me, if you will, just playing it safe, wanting to appeal on a broader spectrum. Reginald Ferguson [00:17:57]: Yeah. Well, you've hit on something. So I introduced you, and I said where you're where you're from. Marcel Ames [00:18:05]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:18:06]: You're from Richmond, and that's where you reside. And I'm here in New York, obviously. Right. And built to stay that way. Yes. But the point I'm making is you are part of the Bible Belt. Marcel Ames [00:18:24]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:18:24]: I've been to Richmond. Marcel Ames [00:18:26]: Have you? Reginald Ferguson [00:18:26]: Absolutely. Okay. I have stayed at the Jefferson. Marcel Ames [00:18:31]: Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:18:32]: Yep. And I saw the Prince Suite. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. There was a suite that is that the Jefferson that Prince stayed at during the Purple Rain tour. Marcel Ames [00:18:43]: Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:18:45]: And if I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, it's a long time ago I've been to Richmond. So please forgive me. I think one of the hallmarks of that hotel, it has, like, alligators or crocodiles Marcel Ames [00:18:55]: in the fountain. Yes. Okay. Reginald Ferguson [00:19:00]: Got you. Yeah. Yeah. Don't sleep on me, man. I've been to Richmond. Marcel Ames [00:19:03]: Yeah. Yeah, man. You. Wow. Okay. Reginald Ferguson [00:19:05]: I stayed at the Jefferson. I stayed at the Marriott right off the highway. Right there at the VCU Dome. And, you know, Richland Spiders, VCU, hung out in Shawko Slip. Marcel Ames [00:19:20]: Okay. Yeah, man. Okay. You're you're naming some you're naming some good places. I'm on Reginald Ferguson [00:19:24]: the line. Richmond Braves game. Marcel Ames [00:19:26]: Okay. Reginald Ferguson [00:19:28]: So yeah. Yeah. So but my Marcel Ames [00:19:32]: Jamerson is nice. It's you know, it's it's one of those, like, classic. Yes. Very classic, like, decadent sort of southern hotels. Like, it almost reminds you, like, you know, in Home Alone 2 and walking into the Plaza Hotel and, you know, the crimson carpeting and the gold and crown molding and, you know, you can still smell the dust of Thomas Jefferson's wig in the air. Like, it's like old old southern shit. Reginald Ferguson [00:19:59]: It's, yeah. It's smoothy smooth, and I think they were surprised when I came through the door. Yes. Marcel Ames [00:20:05]: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. Reginald Ferguson [00:20:08]: That was there on business, and it was quite fun. Excellent. So the reason I'm bringing this up is when you're from New York, and I know you worked up here, and we're gonna talk about that Marcel Ames [00:20:23]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:20:23]: Particularly because I called you on a New York number. So I'm like, what's that about, bro? Hey. Yeah. What? Are you fronting? You're in Virginia. Hey. I recognize this area. Hey. Marcel Ames [00:20:36]: Yes. This is for sex. Reginald Ferguson [00:20:37]: This is my area code. Marcel Ames [00:20:38]: Yeah. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:20:39]: What is he doing? But my point is, all jokes aside, you're in Richmond. Yes, I've been there. I know it a little bit as a tourist, right? I've never lived there, but I know it's part of the Bible Belt. You mentioned something already about someone referring to your brand being satanic. My point is, what is it like to proselytize bespoke and made to measure Neapolitan clothing Marcel Ames [00:21:12]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:21:13]: In the South? Marcel Ames [00:21:18]: It's a battle, honestly. You know? And I'll I'll I'll say it's a battle particularly particularly in Richmond. I haven't ventured out too much into the South. With the brand. You know, that I I think that could change, obviously, as my customer base kinda grows and relationships grow, and I can do more things. But, in Richmond, it's it it was it's kinda like, you know, you have you have pros and cons. You have this pro where, you know, there's no one else in the entire state of Virginia that does bespoke tailoring at the moment except for us. Also, in the politics and tailoring and offering it 365. Marcel Ames [00:22:04]: And, also, you know, just as you know, and, you know, for those who do or don't know, like, when the and tailoring being so lightweight and unstructured, you know, I I even have some jackets that are just totally made out of fabric. There's no canvas. There's no nothing. You can hold them up, and the breeze blows through it. Being ideal for this sort of climate, you know, you you step out of your car, like, right now, and it feels like Satan's armpit, like, you know, when you jump out. Like, the humidity is is insane. So it makes sense for us. It makes sense for a lot of people. Marcel Ames [00:22:34]: But to make that make sense, to people here has, been, you know I I don't wanna say an exercise in futility, but it it it's been a lot tougher, especially in Richmond where we aren't necessarily primed yet to sustain luxury things, especially when it comes to clothing. You know, somebody wanna buy a a nice boat or a truck or you know? And I'm just naming kind of random things. Sure. But, like, clothing is not a priority for people here, at least, in terms of classic menswear. You know, obviously, we used to have Knee Supply, but even they're no longer here, where people kind of exposed to higher end brands and clothing, but there's you know, it's you kinda have pockets and sort of categories, I guess, people might assimilate into, and, you know, the tailoring is not one of them. So the style here is more like the, like, boxy American kinda good old boy look, like, you know, seersucker shirt and a bow tie and, you know, khaki trousers and a very large, heavily padded, like, blazer. And that's, you know, that's the the uniform. And some people may get a little wacky and, you know, wear brighter colors or, you know, there there's just there there isn't much of a a focus on the, craftsmanship of of things, right, for people. Marcel Ames [00:24:07]: So, you know, it it's it has been more of a challenge challenge to provide an educational component to what I'm doing and to help people to kinda get it. And, you know, even in showing people things, like, you know, the average person look at something, and it's like, okay. I don't you know, what's the difference between this and what I'm getting at, you know, Joseph a Banks or whatever? And, you know, which sounds crazy, but there are people who are like that. Reginald Ferguson [00:24:33]: Sure. No. I mean, that that's a legitimate question. Marcel Ames [00:24:36]: Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, trying to show people so you know, like, okay. This is sewn by hand, so this is what a hand sewn seam looks like. You see the ridge on the top up. You see how it's folded up. You know, like, showing people what what path position looks like, being able to open it up and show the canvas in it and, you know, the little they look like little crow's feet kinda going down. Like, you know, this is this is how you kinda get this nice lapel roll where you're rolling this you're rolling this over your knee and sewing it in these lines to, you know, accentuate the role of it. Marcel Ames [00:25:07]: Like, kinda trying to show those details, but and I I'm I'm probably making this a longer explanation than was asked. Reginald Ferguson [00:25:15]: But No. No. No. No. No. No. You're good. Marcel Ames [00:25:15]: That's fine. Keep on. Yeah. It's it's just a it's a it's a bit of a tougher sell here. People just don't spend money, you know, that much or rather, you know, invest in things that have to do with clothing. They're more content with, you know, going to whoever their custom clothier kind of guy is and, you know, going that route, and then also, like, people not knowing what Bespoke is either. So, you know, we and I I I sometimes get on this soapbox sometimes, and it's not, like, to make myself sound better or appear like I'm better than something, but just more like I hate when people use the 2 interchangeably. You know, it's kind of become this buzzword lately where people, you know almost like how couture was for women. Marcel Ames [00:26:02]: Right? You you'd have businesses that would call themselves so and so couture, JoBlo Couture, whatever, but they weren't actually a couturier. Like, you know, there's a process for actually be you know, doing and producing couture. But, the same kind of thing has happened with Bespoke, and so you have to Absolutely. You know, people is abused. Yes. Oh oh my god. It's abused. And so, you know, you'll have people who are like, oh, you know, well, they're they're 6 or 7, 8 people here. Marcel Ames [00:26:30]: Do you know, they do bespoke too. And so, you know, so and so bespoke clothes. I'm like, you know, so and so bespoke custom clothes. I was like, if they use if they call themselves bespoke custom clothes, whatever, 99.9% chance they don't even know what the term actually means, or, you know, just looking to exploit kind of the popularity of the term. So, you know, there's a fun side to that, and being able to walk people through, that process, show people pictures, it kinda weirds people out, honestly, to see, like, basted stitches in a garment. And it's like, this doesn't look done. What's wrong with Reginald Ferguson [00:27:06]: me? You Marcel Ames [00:27:07]: know? It's a Reginald Ferguson [00:27:07]: It's the it's the sausage making. Marcel Ames [00:27:09]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think they're and I don't wanna sound too negative, but I think they're, you know, they're they're pros and cons to it. There's, you know, there there's absolutely an opportunity to educate people, but, you know, and specifically here in Richmond, I think that it's individuality is still kind of a rare thing. Being a little bolder is still kind of a rare. The the I I think people still, for some reason, I don't know what it is here, like, find comfort and sort of it's like, I'll wait for this person to try to do it, and then I'll I'll do it. Marcel Ames [00:27:50]: Or, you know, this I'll wait for this group of people to start wearing it. You know, we have there's a lot of that, and that's just something like I grew up in the city of Richmond, so I feel like I I can I can say that I didn't grow up in the county? I grew up in this in the city proper, like Robert e Lee on my gym shorts, Richmond, Virginia. So, that, you know, that was just something, like, growing up here, I observed, like, you know, people being comfortable in groups. So doing something different that people haven't heard of before or hasn't sort of gained mass popularity yet is still a much harder push, being a higher price point. Like, you know, there there's so many factors that go into it where it's like, okay. The New York client gets it, or even the guys in DC get it. But, here, it's a bit of a harder push. So, you know, I I go back and forth some days, but, you know, I truly hope that, you know, if anything, I can at least help to get the conversation going to, you know, expose people to things that I was exposed to and, I don't know, you know, create some sort of momentum. Marcel Ames [00:28:54]: I'm not, you know, necessarily looking to be this, you know, hero or, you know, sort of, like, big big fish here, so to speak with what I'm doing. It's just, you know, wanting to offer something different and, something that I love, that I'm passionate about, that I wanna share with people, and that's just kinda my whole yeah. Hey. Reginald Ferguson [00:29:17]: Have you ever found yourself looking in your closet before an important meeting, event, get together with friends, or maybe even a date and said, I don't know what to wear. I just don't have the right clothes. Well, that may or may not be true. One of the best ways to figure it out is to determine what I call your fashion foundation. I've put together a free guide so you don't find yourself looking in the mirror cursing yourself again. It's called the 10 things that every man should have in his wardrobe. To sign up, just head over to nyfashiongeek.comforward/ten things, the number 10, to get it in your inbox today. I would hope that you being a native, you have an inside track. Reginald Ferguson [00:30:05]: But clearly, you are preaching the gospel to individuals who have never heard the word. Mhmm. I'm going to ask you this question. Do you feel that a lot of times you are not received effectively because you're African American? Marcel Ames [00:30:29]: I knew that was coming. Reginald Ferguson [00:30:31]: Well, you know, I'm black too, buddy. Marcel Ames [00:30:32]: Yes. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's what I'm saying. I'm done. Reginald Ferguson [00:30:36]: Person to ask this question. Marcel Ames [00:30:37]: Yes. I knew that was coming. And and yes. The answer is yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:30:41]: Yes. Why is that? Yes. Because you're a native. You've been I'm a native. Your life. You know those streets. You know those roads. Marcel Ames [00:30:52]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, it because I've had people tell me that. I've had people Reginald Ferguson [00:30:59]: tell you specifically. Marcel Ames [00:31:00]: I've had someone tell me to to remove myself from my photos, and this was somebody who was black. Remove myself from my photos because I would not be perceived as a luxury brand if they saw that it was someone black. I was like, you gotta be kidding. This is supposed to be like a mentor at the time. I I Reginald Ferguson [00:31:15]: Black on black crime. Marcel Ames [00:31:17]: Yeah. You know, I was like, what? And, you know, and that and and that was that was really toxic because I think I already sort of had in the back of my mind, like, you know, I guess to give an example, it was, like, you know, growing up, we'd be in in elementary school, and our our elementary schools and and middle schools or whatever, Richmond public schools in general, were, you know, majority were black. And you might have a few, you know, children who were, you know, white sprinkled in or, you know, other ethnicities sprinkled in, but it was majority black. And you'd have these moments. I remember as a kid, man, elementary school, I remember I think it was, like, 5th grade. We had, like, maybe 2 white kids in the whole class. The rest of us were black. And our teacher, you know, this is when you have, like, old school teachers, like, smelled like Jerry curls and, you know, be eating Bojangles in a in a classroom, like, old school, you know, drove a Cadillac and stuff. Marcel Ames [00:32:10]: Pull these you know, asked the 2 white children. They were like, you know, Cindy and whatever, can you know, why don't you all go down to the to the library and read for a second? They pulled them out of class. And they closed that door, and it'd be like, what is going on here? You know, what what is, you know, we're we're having behavior issues with you all. You know, you you need to understand something now, and what you need to understand is those 2 children that were like, you know, as as good as those 2 children who walked out of here, you are gonna have to work 5 times harder than they are to get to half of, you know, where they could potentially get in this world. You you always have to work harder. You always have to be, you know, 10 steps ahead 10 steps ahead or whatever. And, you know, people could, you know, maybe in in today's world would argue that was problematic, but these were also people who had experienced Reginald Ferguson [00:33:05]: Wow. It was instructional. Marcel Ames [00:33:06]: Yeah. A lot of, you know, discrimination, firsthand discrimination, seeing that. My mom, you know, my parents did. Mom did. I have. So it's, you know, it's not this miserable. I I think people get think it's it's like something that's so far removed from us when it's like, no. This stuff Reginald Ferguson [00:33:20]: still goes down to death. It's very contemporary. Marcel Ames [00:33:23]: Yes. And so, you know, that's always in the back of your head. That's always drilled into you growing up. And so, yes, you know, there were many times where I wondered, like, okay, would the brand be this much further along if, you know, our some white guy that, you know, came through and it was like, like, oh, I'm, you know, doing bespoke tailoring and doing all these things. Like, would I have been celebrated more or, you know, been embraced more by people or, you know, taken this way. Like, it's it's a hard it's a hard kinda thing. Like, you know, sometimes you have, like, the gentleman who was, like, you know, take yourself down from the pictures, or, you know, people's kinda saying, like, you know, underhanded racist things to you, like, at events and stuff. Like, you know, I've experienced it all. Marcel Ames [00:34:09]: And so, yes, that is always kind of in the back of my mind. But I think I finally just reached a point where I was like, you know, I can't I can't control that, what people think or perceive of me. I can't control people's, you know, people wanting to be discriminatory, you know, against me or whatever, you know, whether it's it's my own people or not. Like, I I can't I can't control that. The only thing I can do is present, you know, what I have, to put my brain out there to do the best that I know how to do and offer what I feel is the best. And and that's it, because people are gonna think what, you know, what they wanna think. Like, I I can't I can't control that, but, you know, in the the short version is yes. Hell, yeah. Marcel Ames [00:34:59]: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it it's still, you know, I don't I'm not sure if that ever really goes away. Reginald Ferguson [00:35:06]: I don't think it I don't think it does. I think I think your success can mitigate it. Marcel Ames [00:35:12]: Absolutely. Reginald Ferguson [00:35:15]: But this same mentor, I don't know if you still have a relationship with this individual. Marcel Ames [00:35:18]: I don't. Reginald Ferguson [00:35:19]: Okay. I wonder And maybe you can help me chronologically. So I looked at your gram. I followed your gram. But again, when I'm doing an interview, I went through your whole Gram top to bottom. My question is because, again, I don't know the chronology of the schism. What did or what would your mentor have thought about the post that you have you know, representing your lifestyle with a white woman as one of the models? Marcel Ames [00:35:57]: I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. He might've he he might have had a problem with it. He might have you know? I don't know. Marcel Ames [00:36:17]: I feel like I feel like he's, like I had some of those editorials out when Reginald Ferguson [00:36:23]: Yeah. That's what I like I said, Owen, you know the timing. Right? Marcel Ames [00:36:26]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't I mean, he never mentioned it to me. So I have no I have no idea. Reginald Ferguson [00:36:37]: Gotcha. Marcel Ames [00:36:38]: I have no idea. Reginald Ferguson [00:36:40]: Now the irony is, as we talk about this Marcel Ames [00:36:42]: Uh-huh. Reginald Ferguson [00:36:44]: You have benefited from the largest of people who don't look like you and I. Mhmm. So the aforementioned Greg LaLuce of No Man Walks Alone, Eric Man, me of Plaza Home. And you've gotten a lot of love from the fashion trades. Yes. WWD. I want to talk about the GQ thing in-depth, hopefully, before this conversation ends. Marcel Ames [00:37:12]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:37:13]: So here you are. It appears the only African American bespoke tailor in Richmond, Virginia, championing this lifestyle through clothing. People who don't look like us giving you a hard time. But white individuals really have pulled you up to help you out. Absolutely. So how does that feel? Marcel Ames [00:37:48]: I mean, it feels great. It it feels it it feels if I mean, I guess it it feels like this is how it should be. You know, like, and I I don't even know if I ever looked at, you know, those things that we talk about as, like, a black and white thing. It was just like maybe I even looked at it more so as a geographic thing, that the majority of the love I received was from outside of where I reside. These are people in, you know, different countries and, you know, a lot of them in New York and Reginald Ferguson [00:38:26]: Right. Marcel Ames [00:38:26]: Other places. It was it was like Well, Reginald Ferguson [00:38:28]: it's gonna happen in New York. Right. Yeah. You're worthy. Marcel Ames [00:38:31]: Yeah. I I hey. I guess I'm I'm grateful to be considered worthy, man. Yeah. It was like I I think it was more of a geographic sort of thing for me than it was a a race thing with a a lot of these people I've developed these relationships with and have been kind enough to, you know, work with me, give me advice, you know, form a relationship with them. It was more and I've I've had this conversation recently where I was like, it's you know, it's still it's so weird. Like, I get, you know and this is just a a sort of a designer creative space sort of thing, where I was like, damn. I feel like I'm embraced so much more outside of here than in in Richmond. Marcel Ames [00:39:13]: It's like I still kinda get looks from people or, you know, kind of like underhanded comments and conversations. Or, you know, people kinda give you, like, oh, you look like you're second rate kind of you know, it's like, oh, you know a lot of that. There's a lot of that, especially compared to, like, other people who might be doing tailoring or whatever else, but they'll look at me like or it'll be one of those things where, like, you know, they'll ask me who's making my stuff or, you know, what tailors are you working with, who makes your scarves, look at the tags, that sort of thing. But to actually work together as equals, it's like the the conversation drops, or you don't, you know, get a response back, or it's just like you know? It's it's kinda one of those scenarios. So I've just been like, you know what? Like, it is what it is. I and and that is not to say that I haven't had support here because I really have. I've I've had you know, there's several, people in in places that have supported me here in Richmond and in Virginia, but there's been a a a much larger embrace from places outside of here. And, you know, I could speculate as to maybe why, you know, those things are sometimes it could be, like, maybe people see me as a threat. Marcel Ames [00:40:32]: You know, some people may just, you know, may not know what I'm doing, and it's just like, okay, well, I don't, you know, there there are a lot of people that just sell something to sell something, if if you kinda get what I'm saying. It's like, I'm I'm slinging suits because I wanna sell suits, but I don't really know much further than that. I don't know how they construct it, or I don't you know, it's just like, oh, I just wanna sell custom suits, whatever. And that's fine, but that's that's not what I do. No. So sometimes the Reginald Ferguson [00:40:59]: exact opposite. You're you're erudite. Yes. You started from scratch Marcel Ames [00:41:05]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:05]: And taught yourself. Mhmm. So people need to know that story. We're not gonna be able probably with our time. And I already in my head, I'm saying to myself, hey, man. We may we may have to do a 2 parter if you don't. Marcel Ames [00:41:20]: Right. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:21]: You know, I always tell guests, you're always welcome back. Marcel Ames [00:41:24]: But Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:25]: Yeah. I mean and like I said, I've you know, unbeknownst to you, I followed you probably, Marcel Ames [00:41:30]: I don't Reginald Ferguson [00:41:30]: know, a year or 2 years ago. Marcel Ames [00:41:32]: I'm sure. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:33]: Because you launched in 2016, correct? Correct. So, yeah, I think I was I don't know. I was either reading MR Magazine or I don't know what I was reading. Marcel Ames [00:41:45]: Okay. And Reginald Ferguson [00:41:46]: then, you know, read an article or it might have been an old Plaza Omo. Okay. And I was like, oh, well, that's cool. That's interesting. And then finally on the ground, followed you on the ground. And then, like I said, clubhouse, I constantly big up clubhouse on my newsletter and on my pod. And like I said, Greg has that room, which actually don't let him know I have forgotten to join that room recently. But also he doesn't set it up ahead of time. Reginald Ferguson [00:42:14]: I wish you would just set it up so I could put anyone who sets them up ahead of time. I could put in my calendar. Yeah. And then I get a reminder. It's Marcel Ames [00:42:21]: on demand. Reginald Ferguson [00:42:22]: Tuesday comes and goes. He only sets it up right then. So I'm like, oh, I forgot. But I was fortunate enough that one time that might have been one of the last times because again, I just forget. Like this week, I forget. I was like, oh, he's got the thing. Tell Greg to set it up on the calendar. You know, but like I said, I heard you and I said, oh, I said, yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:42:45]: I want to I wanna I wanna follow-up. So you started with the brand because you have to start somewhere, and my assumption is when you're starting with a brand, you have to start small. Marcel Ames [00:42:59]: Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:42:59]: You started with pocket squares. Marcel Ames [00:43:02]: So, actually and I I I I'll even forget this sometimes. I actually started out with, knitwear. Reginald Ferguson [00:43:11]: I did not know that. Marcel Ames [00:43:12]: Yeah. I actually started out with, this I was, like, working kinda working with this knitwear manufacturer, and I was doing these, like, short sleeve and long sleeve polos. And that was kinda what I really I I started, that was sort of like me playing around with product development. So I would sketch out these collar patterns and cuff patterns. I think I had some that had, like, the, what do you call them? Like, the English turn back cuffs, like the James Bond, the doctor Millcuffs. Yeah. I had the cocktail Reginald Ferguson [00:43:43]: cuffs. Yeah. Yeah. I saw this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:43:45]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This polo shirt's crazy. Marcel Ames [00:43:47]: Yeah. I I started with this Reginald Ferguson [00:43:49]: shirt. Collar. Marcel Ames [00:43:50]: Yeah. And, it it didn't go anywhere. I couldn't Reginald Ferguson [00:43:54]: Oh. Yeah. Really? Marcel Ames [00:43:56]: Mhmm. And so Reginald Ferguson [00:43:58]: It's very unique. Marcel Ames [00:43:59]: Thank you. Thank you. It was, you know, that was my it was like I was sitting at this kitchen table sketching these things out. And, while in doing that, I was like, okay. I wanna do other things. Like, I was teaching myself how to sketch and do graphic design. I was on, like, you know, cracked version of Illustrator, maybe, allegedly, on my on my old college computer and learning these things as I was still experiencing, like, concussion symptoms and all that kind of stuff. So, I was like, well, what would be, you know, the next most accessible thing? Because, you know, with the shirts, like, those those were something that I had to do custom. Marcel Ames [00:44:40]: Like, I I wasn't able to, produce them in batches, so to speak, and, you know, sell them ready where I had to do them custom. So, I couldn't do that. I'll you know, just it just didn't happen. And I was like, alright. What's the next entry point? Obviously, like, you know, accessories. So I'm like, okay. I wanna do pocket squares, but I want a certain counter pocket square. I want them to be hand rolled. Marcel Ames [00:45:03]: And, you know, so I went through that whole, like, process, and then I was like, well, I don't wanna use like, I don't wanna circulate patterns. Right? I don't I'm I like people have a million fucking paisley pocket squares or, you know, neats and all these other things. I'm like, well, I don't I don't wanna do that. Like and so I was as I was learning craft design, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna send them my own shit. Like, I'm a do my own thing. I'll you know? And so I started with, with it, I did, like, a medallion pattern and was working with this fabric mill, and, I just had silk printed up. I had this silk printed up in this medallion pattern. And I bought, what is it, like, a wool interfacing, wool interlining and thread. Marcel Ames [00:45:49]: And, I cut out. Like, I literally just had cardboard. It was, like, cardboard all over the fucking place. And I was cutting out these tie patterns, these necktie patterns. Then I had a friend of mine who had, like, had, like, a laser machine and had him like, I went and got a plexiglass and had him make me, like, cut me out this tie pattern. Like, I did the CAD design for it and sent it to him and made me this tie pattern. And I would sit at the table, and I that same soap that I had printed out, I I cut out all of the inner linings. I cut out my patterns for the silk, and I screw I screwed up a lot of silk. Marcel Ames [00:46:27]: Let me just let me see. I screwed up a lot of good silk. And I would I would sew these ties. Like, I would do the hand rolling on the edges because I was I've been playing around with hand rolling. I do the hand rolling. I do, you know, the slip stitch down the spine with the, with the tension loop on it. And all these things, I'm, like, you know, making these sides. And some of them came out kinda weird. Marcel Ames [00:46:51]: A lot of them came out kinda weird. Some of them were, you know, pretty decent, and I still have them. And that was kinda my first, like, crack was, like, doing that, doing I think I had, like, Macasil from somewhere. I was doing these sort of, like, these, untipped neckties that were made out of Macasil. And I think that's actually that's the around that time was the first time I met Greg. And he actually saw some of these ties, which are, like, some of them were good, but they it wasn't like It Reginald Ferguson [00:47:20]: was hit or miss. Marcel Ames [00:47:21]: Yeah. It was it was it was hit or miss. Like, I had a couple ones that were good, and the rest of it was like, there's no way in hell you can sell this. Like, I I I you know, it was, yeah, it was it was a little rough. But, yeah, that was that was what I started with, man. And, you know, eventually, like, you know, printed out the pocket squares, and I did this, like, Virginia collection. Yes. I'm so Yeah. Marcel Ames [00:47:42]: So, you know, that was just me. Like, those are kind of the first sketches I did where I was just like, oh, what do I think would sell well? You know? I'm in Richmond. Why don't I do Virginia collection? Yeah. You know, so I did, like, Colonial Williamsburg and King Neptune, Virginia Beach, and, you know, the Richmond skyline and all that kind of, you know, stuff. And that was the my first first collection, so to speak. Reginald Ferguson [00:48:07]: Nice. You and I are gonna have to do a 2 parter. Okay. Again, the door is open to do it Okay. Marcel Ames [00:48:14]: If Reginald Ferguson [00:48:14]: we because there's so much to talk about. Marcel Ames [00:48:16]: There is so much to talk about. Reginald Ferguson [00:48:18]: What's the top fashion tip you would give the everyday man so he could look his best, Marcel? Marcel Ames [00:48:27]: My top fashion tip, I think, would be, have at least 1 to 2 jackets that fit well, especially in the chest and the shoulders, that are sort of, you know, standard colors, like, for sake of versatility, in in you know, with an emphasis on someone, you know, starting their wardrobe or, you know, just kind of starting to curate and build things, Starting with the basics and, you know, having things that are a bit more versatile, you know, a blazer, a suit, nice pair of denim, pair of boots, you know, pair of I I like Oxfords. Like, you know, have a pair of Oxfords. And I I typically do browns. Like, I don't do black shoes, any of that kind of stuff. That's another story. Have things that are basically you know, that that are versatile, that you can kinda get the most out of. If you don't have this extensive wardrobe, pairing it with, you know, different kinds of shirts. If it's you know, you have, like, a navy nice navy blazer, you know, you could throw that on with a T shirt as much as you could throw it on with a crisp white shirt or a blue shirt. Marcel Ames [00:49:50]: You know, there's so many things you can do and to kind of stretch your wardrobe a bit and get the most out of it. So, yeah, I would just say kind of starting with the basics. And I mean that, you know, like, basic colors, and, you know, you can never go wrong with, like, wool and, and cotton in particular. Particular, you know, nothing too crazy a pattern, and there's always a way to flip that, stretch it out with, you know, the shirts or accessories and all these little things that can make it look like a a totally different outfit the next day even if you wore the same jacket yesterday. You know, give give versatility out of it. Wear it. See how things feel on you, how they fit on you, what colors look best on you, and don't don't drown you out, and start there. And, you know, don't you don't have to rush it either. Marcel Ames [00:50:43]: Like, I think part of part of starting out slow is, like, understanding yourself, understanding what your needs are, how your body is, you know, how what your lifestyle is if you're an active person, you know, if you're in a hot place or a cold place, if you're sitting down a lot. Like, taking all of these things into play to really understand what your your needs are and then kinda going from there into, like, okay. Well, this is what I like, or these are certain things that I like, or this this works well for me, and it's easy, instead of getting in the weeds. And it's like, oh, well, what are the rules for you know, we think about the rules. Like, what are the rules? What what kind of you know, what should I do with this or what should I do with that? Like, you know, technically, yeah, there, you know, there are, quote, unquote, rules, but, like, at the end of the day, I think the goal everyone wants to achieve is just look look good, feel good. You know? And the rest can come later. And so I don't you know, you don't always have to adhere to the rules, so to speak. I'm not telling you to go step out in, like, you know, a flaming pink jacket with, like, you know, geese on the front or something like that, but, you know, just start with the basics and understand you, understand your body, understand your lifestyle, and I think the rest falls into place. Marcel Ames [00:52:00]: And, you know, just do some do some homework. You know? Try things out. Feel them. That's kind of the best you know, experience is the best teacher. So, I guess that is the advice I would give. Reginald Ferguson [00:52:14]: Makes sense. So what does always be fly mean to you? Marcel Ames [00:52:25]: Oh, man. I think always be fly is, like, a mind state in a in a way. You know? Like, always be fly to me is being noticed, but not being noticed. I've I've always admired the the subtle sort of, like, flyness, You know? Not not too flashy, not too out there. Maybe a, you know, piece piece here and there that stands out. Being noticed, but not being noticed. Like, you know, maybe you have to get up close to, see certain details or, certain nuances of of what someone is wearing. And, you know, the other half, I think, is just mental. Marcel Ames [00:53:13]: It's just the confidence that you have that, you know, you feel comfortable in what you're doing. And, yeah, it's like a mind state. You know? That there'll always always be flying, even if you don't even if the, you know, the outside doesn't doesn't necessarily, you know, feel fly. I think, you know, the the mind state is fly. Like, you know, as as much as I like to and I, you know, I try to keep it real with people. Like, you know, I like to present things, and it's a much more, curated sort of look if you look on the Instagram. But, you know, I'm not always in a, you know, in a in a suit or, you know, high rise trousers or whatever. Like, you know, I'm sitting here, and I got a white beater on and some old New Balance and, you know, whatever. Marcel Ames [00:54:00]: Like Right. Reginald Ferguson [00:54:02]: Of course. Marcel Ames [00:54:02]: It's, you know, it's it's all again, I think it's a mind state. And, you know, as long as you know your your abilities and are are comfortable in that, you know, the rest, the rest sort of comes together. But, yeah, always be fly. Reginald Ferguson [00:54:18]: Absolutely. Marcel Ames, ex of pentas, representing Richmond VA. Marcel Ames [00:54:25]: 2 up, 2 down. Reginald Ferguson [00:54:27]: Now you know. So I think the biggest thing I learned was if you're good and have the talent, passion, and skill, it doesn't matter where you're from. Now the question is, will the city of Richmond be known for birthing this brand? A brand that GQ and Women's Wear Daily have anointed as legit? Only time will tell. In the meanwhile, go to 10 of pentacles. Xofpentacles.com and pick yourself up an accessory or a wand. Let's keep supporting this trade acts, particularly in the south. Well, that's a wrap. Thank you so much for listening. Reginald Ferguson [00:55:18]: We hope you had fun and are down for another one. Please tell a friend who could use some fashion help about the podcast or share an episode with them directly. If you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you constantly struggle putting an outfit together and are looking to turn that confusion into confidence, I'd love to talk about how we can improve the world. Check me out at nyfashiongoup.com, and email me at reg at nyfashiongroup.com for a consultation. Special shout outs for our producer, Serge, and everyone down with the Fashion Week Podcast. If you have a story suggestion, you can email me at podcast@nyfashiongeek.com or hit me up on the insta@newyorkfashion geek. And remember, always be fly.