Kate Tortland [00:00:00]: Our goal really was to have art in your pocket, like, specifically designed art in your pocket. Not not reproduction art that was designed for another purpose, but art that was specifically designed to be worn. Even the scale of the drawings that that are designed and the scale of the patterns are all designed for a pocket square purpose. There there are not images that were created to be on a wall and then got shrunk down to be on a pocket square. They are designed to scale. And so every every inch of the pocket square is thawed out, and you can use them in such a variety of ways so that different patterns or different colors show depending on how you wear it. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:42]: Hello. I'm Red. Tiff [00:00:43]: And I'm Tiff. And we're the fashion geeks. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:46]: Trying to make New York. Tiff [00:00:47]: And the world. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:47]: Well, New York is the world. Tiff [00:00:49]: A little flyer, one outfit Reginald Ferguson [00:00:50]: And podcast. Tiff [00:00:51]: At a time. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:57]: I've been rocking a pocket square or a handkerchief since I was a little boy. Why? Because my grandpa did. He was one of my heroes and he was one of my first teachers in learning style and fashion. He gave me my first handkerchief and showed me how to put it in my jacket. I was a little boy, a beautiful white hanky. Now, I was like my grandpa. Then, he showed me pocket squares. Different colors and patterns. Reginald Ferguson [00:01:28]: I remember when I bought my first one. It is money. It was a lovely 2 tone blue with a little white on the border with small flowers. I loved it. I still do because I still have it and I rock it. When my mom passed, I had to go through the house which was my grandparent's. All of my grandpa's clothes were gone especially suits, sport jackets, coats and hats. I was crestfallen. Reginald Ferguson [00:02:00]: Why did my mom move them? I looked in his chest of drawers and I found a treasure. I found all of his pocket squares and handkerchiefs. I took them all home. So if you know my name and you see a handkerchief with a colored tip border and the name Walter hand stitching to the cotton, just give an eye on me. I miss you, grandpa. Thank you for everything. You will always be fly. Yo. Reginald Ferguson [00:02:38]: This is Reg Ferguson, Fatsch Geek number 1. How are you? Welcome to the ride. Thank you so much for listening. Please tell your friends about us. Please tell them to subscribe, share an episode, and please give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts. A special shout goes to our producer, Serge, and everyone down with The Fashion Geeks. If you have a question or a story suggestion, you can email me at podcast at nyfashingeek.com or hit me up on the insta at New York Fashion Geek. Today, we're gonna talk with Daniele Antonella and Kate Tortland of Antonella Apparel, who are in Connecticut, CT. Reginald Ferguson [00:03:22]: And we're gonna talk about something that the everyday man should have in their wardrobe. We're gonna talk about pocket squares. Kate and Daniele in the building. How are you 2? Kate Tortland [00:03:35]: Hey. We're great. Daniele Antoniella [00:03:36]: Yeah. We are doing great. Kate Tortland [00:03:38]: So thank you so much for having us. Reginald Ferguson [00:03:40]: Absolutely. No. It's really my pleasure. So are you keeping safe out there in Connecticut? Kate Tortland [00:03:45]: Oh, yeah. Things are pretty chill here, actually. Daniele Antoniella [00:03:48]: Yeah. You know, Connecticut is cold. Things always freeze here. Everything is freeze it's frozen. There's not really much Kate Tortland [00:03:55]: Can't do much anyway? Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:03:56]: There's no much alive around. Reginald Ferguson [00:04:01]: Thank you. Thank you for giving me that update because I haven't been, I haven't been to the nut mixed state in a little bit. So, Kate Tortland [00:04:07]: well, compared to Italy, everything is cold for you, Eli. So Daniele Antoniella [00:04:11]: But you you are in New York. Right? Reginald Ferguson [00:04:13]: Yes. I'm in New York Daniele Antoniella [00:04:14]: City. New York is cold too. Reginald Ferguson [00:04:18]: Right? Well, yeah. Today today, especially though it's spring, it was only what, 50 degrees today? And I had a parka because I actually went outside, though I quarantined in place. Actually, you'll appreciate this. I went to look at a brand, and that was kind of fun. That was kind of kind of normal. Kate Tortland [00:04:40]: A brand? What kind of brand? Reginald Ferguson [00:04:43]: I was looking at the hunter boot sample sale. Oh, okay. Cool. Yep. Yep. It was very cool. Nothing that fit me, and that was great because that means yeah. I know. Reginald Ferguson [00:04:56]: Yeah. I know. Because if you went, Daniele, I know it would have happened. Daniele Antoniella [00:05:00]: Yeah. Yeah. I know. No. You know, I usually go on a rampage on a sport jackets. That's what I usually do. That's my rampage. Like when, like, I yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:05:12]: Sport jackets is Kate Tortland [00:05:13]: because you're down low. Daniele Antoniella [00:05:14]: Yeah. It's a problem for me. Yeah. I mean, obviously, probably square, but I I would say, sport jacket and shoes are like yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:25]: It's a problem. Daniele Antoniella [00:05:25]: Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:26]: Well, before we go into our topic, please tell us, so what did the 2 of you do? So what do you So what do you what do you what do you do? Kate Tortland [00:05:48]: Well, that's a loaded question. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:05:51]: I tried. Kate Tortland [00:05:52]: So do you wanna know what we do in terms of the fashion world or in life or, you know, what what are you looking for here? Reginald Ferguson [00:06:00]: Let's let's let's, let's keep it fashion for right now. Kate Tortland [00:06:04]: So Okay. We mainly do pocket squares, obviously, since that's our topic. They're, I mean, they're handmade pocket squares. I design them all myself. We we collaborate, Daniella and I, on ideas and kind of the content that is in the PocketSquares and obviously the brand direction. But for now, they're they're all, based on locations around Italy, and we sell them right now mainly online, and in a few smaller menswear stores, and that's kind of Daniele Antoniella [00:06:49]: Yeah. 1 of the store we sell at them in exactly a store that I work at, in West Hartford, a specialty store. They rely in men's wear brands and they carry our pocket squares. Yeah. I mean, we started this brand, with the idea of make it very, like, different from, usual, pogo squares. You know, there are a few I mean, I've noticed myself, personally, I've noticed that there are not many, brands that do only accessories or pogo squares, and if they do pogo squares, tends to be very repetitive. So we wanted to do something that was very different and, will stand out, from the crowd. Mhmm. Daniele Antoniella [00:07:45]: And, yeah, sorry, go ahead. Reginald Ferguson [00:07:48]: No, no, no. I mean, you read my mind. You just hit it. What do you think makes your brand different than the others in the space? Daniele Antoniella [00:07:58]: I will say there are a few factors. I will definitely say the designs obviously do make a unique, the fact that they are like, sketched, that they are basically engrown and they are almost, come out as an illustration, to begin with and then they are digitalized. So it's very the result of it. It's not as digital as many, PolySquares brand I've noticed. It's more like it has more of an artisanal, look, an artisanal feel and touch to it. Kate Tortland [00:08:43]: Yeah. I think from what I've seen personally, there's there are pocket square companies that will do reproductions of art pieces on pocket squares. Rampling Co. Would be one of them, that they do beautiful artwork on pocket squares, but it's all art that has been, it's, you know, they're paintings or they're illustrations that have been made, in the past, or then you have patterned pocket squares, but there was nothing really new being created. You you weren't weren't you were not really seeing any new images specifically designed for pocket squares being created. There are some, but, not in the style or the way that we are doing them, highlighting, architecture, the combination of architecture, landscape, and pattern, altogether in a way that isn't necessarily, it's not exactly there there's some liberties taken, so it's not entirely representative of the specific locations, but it's, you know, you can if you're looking at our ROMA pocket square, you can there's definitely recognizable elements within that. Some of them are more representative than others, but, Yeah. So I think that's kind of what helps them to stand out from the crowd is that they are specifically designed for that purpose. Daniele Antoniella [00:10:09]: Yeah. I I mean, I would say another important factor. I mean, I know other brands do it, but is, with, the fact that we had hams and rolled and, that I think it's a very important factor. As I've noticed, that less and less brands do that. They can do machine stitch and I know why they do it. It's just easier and save times and it's cost better cost effective. But for us was very important to do that and to just make it, like The highest quality possible. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:10:51]: Correct. Yeah. Our Kate Tortland [00:10:52]: our goal really was to have art in your pocket, like, specifically designed art in your pocket. Not not reproduction art that was designed for another purpose, but art that was specifically designed to be worn. Even the scale of the drawings that that are designed and the scale of the patterns are all designed for a pocket square purpose. There there are not images that were created to be on a wall and then got shrunk down to be on a pocket square. They are designed to scale, and so every every inch of the pocket square is thawed out, and you you can use them in such a variety of ways so that different patterns or different colors show depending on how you wear it, which creates variety in each pocket square. So I think that's another thing that, you know, we didn't want to just have the image. We also wanted the whole piece to be entirely art like, artistic. So we wanted the the fabric to be the highest quality. Kate Tortland [00:11:54]: We wanted the the stitching to be the highest quality. This is this is something we wanted to do really well from beginning to end. Reginald Ferguson [00:12:03]: So you brought up something that I like because I actually know some friends who have a watch brand, and they use an expression that I think also applies to you. Wearable art. Yeah. And you've brought up something. We know now a trend over the past few years, I think to your point, Kate, is reproductions of art on a pocket square. And if you're doing it at a pocket square, you're also doing it in a jacket lining. Daniele Antoniella [00:12:38]: Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:12:38]: And I'm sure you have opinions on that. I know I do. Daniele Antoniella [00:12:43]: I do too. I'm not sure which one you have, though. Kate Tortland [00:12:55]: You're the guest. Reginald Ferguson [00:12:57]: Daniela, what is your opinion on Daniele Antoniella [00:12:59]: on this? You know, I have a hard time with it, honestly. I'm more when it comes to linings and when it comes to, again, focus squares, things like that, I like something that it's, just more purposely designed for it and it's just more unique and there's a touch to it. I just feel that when you use art and you just, basically compress that to a jacket lining or a poly square lining to me, kinds of loses, the feeling. It loses the touch. And to me just looks kind of out of place. But that's, you know, my personal opinion, like I'm nothing against people doing it or I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's just, it's just the feeling I get. I like my lining to have more of a classic and sophisticated, like it almost kind of loses that to me. Daniele Antoniella [00:14:10]: When I have something like, I usually like, personally, more a pattern outside the jacket. I mean, if most of my jackets are like plaid or like the I I go crazy with plaids and prints of wales and all dang colors outside and all that. I I have like so many different ones, but, the outside for me tends to be a little more on like a clean, cut. Like, I mean, obviously, like, I go for, like, you know, classic menswear patterns, like, pencils, like medallions, like all that. But when it comes to that kind of design to me has to be a little more abstract inside of a jacket to work. But you know, that's my opinion, Reginald Ferguson [00:15:01]: then Oh, understood. Daniele Antoniella [00:15:03]: What's your Reginald Ferguson [00:15:03]: opinion? Entitled to. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you. I think it's straight garbage. Daniele Antoniella [00:15:07]: Oh, no. You know, then we are on the same length of that. You're so polite. Kate Tortland [00:15:12]: Garbage. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:15:24]: You know No. Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:15:27]: Sure. No. I mean, here here's the deal. Fashion comes in phases and stages. And again, over the past few years, like I said, I'm probably really talking more about aligning versus a pocket square, but I just figured they both have something in common, which is the material. So those linings, particularly when people are doing made to measure or even bespoke, that's their exhibition. And I think what you just said is, hey, the patterns of my sport jacket or probably even a suit, but let's keep it the sport jacket. That's your representation of your personality. Reginald Ferguson [00:16:15]: The colors, the patterns. Yep. And then it sounds like your lying may be more sedate. So Daniele Antoniella [00:16:25]: for me, Reginald Ferguson [00:16:27]: I generally like to keep my aligning simple. But let's go into pocket squares because that's why you're here. Pocket squares for me, I certainly like patterns. There's no question. And it's funny when you're talking about scale and Kate, I'm going to really hit you with that, as we continue talking. So I remember being introduced to Kent Wang. Mhmm. And I have a pocket square of his, which has hieroglyphics. Reginald Ferguson [00:16:58]: And it has. Yeah. Yeah. So one day, just scroll, scroll, scroll down my Instagram and you'll find it. Daniele Antoniella [00:17:09]: So Alright. I'll do that. Reginald Ferguson [00:17:12]: So So Horus is represented. And I kind of have a back story with Horus. I have a friend who went to Egypt decades before I ever did and took a photo of Horus and I literally have it here in my living room framed. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow. On one of my tables. Reginald Ferguson [00:17:32]: So I get introduced to Kent Wang at a trunk show. And big shout out, to my friend Paul, who took me to that. And I went to this trunk show. They had this trunk show annually. And I don't I can't remember. Did I make the purchase the first time? I probably did. And because they have so many beautiful pocket squares, it's like candy. Right. Reginald Ferguson [00:17:59]: And I went, nope, I'm only getting one. I shouldn't even get this one. But I did. And it's a lovely pattern. I wouldn't know anything about it from a production standpoint, but the 2 of you would. But what I've done, and I think he hates the few times I've tagged him, I always make sure that Horus is facing the audience, so to speak. So you see Horus popping out of my pocket. Kate Tortland [00:18:30]: Why would he hate that? Reginald Ferguson [00:18:32]: No. Because I think he's like, oh, there he is again. Daniele Antoniella [00:18:35]: That's the Reginald Ferguson [00:18:36]: same position. That same pocket square in that same suit. Yeah. You're doing right. That's, you know, that's how I roll. So, Kate, you talked about scale through reproduction. Kate Tortland [00:18:53]: Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:18:54]: And you are classically trained as an artist. Kate Tortland [00:18:58]: That's correct. Reginald Ferguson [00:19:00]: So you bring something to this. You've been in fine painting, you've been a textile designer, graphic designer, professional painter and designer. So can you elaborate about talking about the whole point of scale reproduction, you know, vis a vis? Kate Tortland [00:19:18]: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a I'm an expert by any means on this as it pertains to pocket squares. I think this this comes more from what I've observed, looking at different pocket squares, before we launched. Obviously, you know, I I never had or even didn't even know what a pocket square was before I met Danielle. Like, when we were dating, we were talking about what could we do together. That was something that combined both of our passions. He's like, we should start a fashion company, and I'm like, okay. Well, I'm I'm picturing, like, runway fashion. Kate Tortland [00:19:52]: I'm like, I don't know about that. That sounds like a little tricky. And he's like, well, we could start with pocket squares. And I was like, I don't know what that is. So when I learned that it was literally just a piece of fabric, that's a very simple thing to design or so I thought until I started researching pocket squares and the wide variety that you find and looking at his pocket squares and kind of, you know, how they're used. And there is a lot of variety that you can use them for, but I also was noticing that I think, like, Daniele said at the beginning, they are repetitive, many of them. Like, you at least in the mainstream, unless you're you're kind of more into this, niche of, sartorial, the sartorial world. Like, you walk into a Jose Bank or Nordstrom or something like that, all the pocket squares look exactly the same. Kate Tortland [00:20:51]: Like, there's nothing new out there. You there are, of course, places like Kent Wang and, you know, some of these other places that have other ones. So when I started looking at them and seeing how they were used, how they were worn, and it was clear that I from I think it's ultimately, it's a matter of perspective or preference, but I tend to think that, as a matter of scale, it's if you're going to have something representational, it shouldn't be so large that it becomes an abstraction once it's folded. At least that's my, my simple, I guess, perspective. I think there are obviously scenarios where that wouldn't be the case, but when I design our pocket squares, I tend to want to have pieces in the pocket squares, whatever side is being shown or whatever edge is being shown. There's something to scale that's recognizable in that little piece or corner of it. Now that's as it pertains to recognizable images. If it's a pattern, then it becomes a little bit different. Kate Tortland [00:22:14]: Even still though, when because a pocket square is folded so much, if it's too large, if the if the designs are too large, it just becomes kind of a a mess, I think, personally. So I think it is tricky to get that scale just right so that it's not too small that it prints inaccurately because that's a factor too because printing on silk or linen especially, or, what's the other one? Daniele Antoniella [00:22:41]: Cotton? Kate Tortland [00:22:42]: Cotton or, silk wool. Silk wool. The details can get lost. So it's a fine balance between designing something with details that are too small and then too large to actually be seen when it's folded. So when I design them, I actually draw them slightly larger than they will end up being, and then but not much. It's maybe half a step bigger than it than it will be at the end, and that's just what I found has worked well for the types of designs we're doing. I think what's that pocket square that you have that you really like with the animals on it? Who made that one? Daniele Antoniella [00:23:27]: The one with the lion? No. That was great. The people on the horses? Yeah. Oh, Ethan. Kate Tortland [00:23:35]: Ethan. Yeah. That was a really nice one. Oh, Reginald Ferguson [00:23:37]: that's beautiful. Daniele Antoniella [00:23:38]: Did a really nice one. It's like a Byzantine take Kate Tortland [00:23:41]: Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:23:41]: On, there are there is, like, these small villages on the corner and these people on horses. They're running, like, it's pretty cool. Kate Tortland [00:23:50]: But it when it's when it's folded, it does it's not immediately noticeable what those things are. It almost reads as a pattern, because you don't want it to be too busy either. It's it's it's it's quite a balance. So, yeah, I I don't know if that answers your question or not, but Daniele Antoniella [00:24:07]: No. No. No. Reginald Ferguson [00:24:08]: Absolutely, it does. Yeah. Let's let's talk about more of the origin. Meaning, the 2 of you looked at each other and said, let's do something in fashion. And And Kate, you immediately acknowledged, I don't even know what a pocket square is. So but once you once you got through that hurdle, what led you Kate Tortland [00:24:33]: Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:24:33]: Oh, well, you know, when we actually kind of process this, together, we were in Assisi, in Italy. You know, Assisi is a small town in Italy, the Basilica or San Francis. Reginald Ferguson [00:24:47]: The San Francisco. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:24:48]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we went inside the basilica and looking all these crazy patterns in there. But, like, they they are crazy, but they are, like, so like, the colors are so, like, nice and, like, not too, like it's almost like they go so well with each other. It's overwhelming. It's a lot of different parts, but they go very well with each other. Daniele Antoniella [00:25:10]: It's impressive. Kate Tortland [00:25:11]: They're all frescoes, the church is covered in frescoes, fresco patterns. Daniele Antoniella [00:25:18]: Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, we were I was looking at this pattern and that's when I wanted like, would be wouldn't it be amazing to put this pattern in something like in a pocket square or in a tie or and that's when we kind of go thinking about it. And, and then one of our poly squares is in fact Assisi. This represents Assisi. It's more of an abstract representation of Kate Tortland [00:25:46]: Mhmm. Daniele Antoniella [00:25:47]: The place but, so I mean, the way we went we go through it was really, with I guess we started just, elaborating the idea and we weren't sure what to do at the very first. Then we didn't wanna do patterns because patterns are like, yeah, you can have different patterns, but It's been done. It's been done. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:26:23]: Right. Daniele Antoniella [00:26:24]: So we just came with the idea why not doing like, you know, a presentation of Italy, different Italian places and, different locations and add, like, an abstract part of to it. Not, you know, just just a city, just a location because that would be boring, but I give a twist and, you know, make a little more abstract and add, like, some, you know, landscaping, some patterns around it, some Kate Tortland [00:26:56]: Yeah, kind of take bits and pieces from from each specific area. It was it was interesting. I'm just even remembering this now going back to that place when we were just brainstorming it and then doing some test ideas. At first, we thought, you know, do we do you know, how do we even design these? Do we do paintings? Like, I I remember doing a gouache painting of a cc, you know, with actual paint on Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then maybe that could become a representation. We we weren't even sure what style we wanted these to be, at the very beginning. There were pencil drawings that, that emerged, with, like, leaves and lemons, and we weren't, we had no idea really what we wanted to do with it at first. Kate Tortland [00:27:46]: We knew we wanted pocket squares because they were, they allowed a lot of versatility. And then we wanted to incorporate pattern and image of some kind because that was what was in that basilica that we loved so much. And eventually, you know, as I was just sketching and kind of dreaming, sitting with it, You know, I did a drawing, and I think the first one was Assisi, and it just came out, and it just flowed out, and it was immediately clear to both of us that that was the direction to go. And so after doing that sketch, I inked it and digitized it. I've I stuck with painting and selling in galleries, but I had a lot of I stuck with painting and selling in galleries, but I had a lot of experience with it and did and did some licensing and some, work with branding companies with patterns and scarves and different things before. So I was used to that process. So once we once we found that style, and did some test runs, we knew that we had it. So it's just kind of exploring that now and seeing where that can go. Kate Tortland [00:29:04]: The the issue that we're running into now is time because each piece, just to sketch and design it takes me around a 150 hours. So and that's just the design process. Then you have to, you know, get the color tests, and and, you know, that process is a little bit, faster once you have the images completely done, but, you know, we get them printed and made in England, so we have to get those samples and color check them and make sure they're they're accurate, and that can take up to another month. So it's it's not a a quick process to design one. So what we're running into now is how do we push our brand forward a little bit more effectively? Because at this rate, come out with one new pocket square a year, And it's just Oh. It's just not, the the issue is I don't wanna sacrifice quality or uniqueness for convenience. So it's where does that balance come in is what we're running into now, but that's another it's a whole other story. Reginald Ferguson [00:30:11]: Yeah. No. But maybe we'll talk about it a little bit. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:30:15]: You know, it's a tough balance because the only idea at the very beginning was, I wanted to we I wanted to create something unique and that will literally, like, be basically the point of attention, almost a point of attention, at least for me, just because, I I'm the kind of guy that always wear polka squares. I don't wear I don't wear ties. I love and I appreciate ties. I just don't wear them as much as I do pocket squares and I'm I'm also the kind of guy that always wear a jacket. You will never see me not wearing a jacket. It's literally like my way to go, no matter what time of the year is. So, you know, I wanted to we wanted to create something that was like just I wanted to have something that will stand out also because I wear patterns. I go crazy with patterns, so I didn't need something that will, like, stay out in the midst of that. Daniele Antoniella [00:31:14]: So, you know, but yeah, it's it's, it's hard. It's hard to find, like, the balance of because, you know, it's, what we are creating, it's, it's so different and takes time. Kate Tortland [00:31:31]: And it's just the 2 of us. I mean, you know, we we don't have a production company. We get them printed, obviously made in England. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:31:39]: Must field. Kate Tortland [00:31:40]: But, you know, it all the branding, all the photography, all the website stuff, the shipping, packaging, all of that is designed by us and managed by us. So it's it's, it's not an easy an easy process or a quick one. So to be able to then create a new product, to the level that we want and then get it marketed and get it out there and ready to go just is so time consuming. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:14]: The Fashion Geeks are hosted and powered by Blueberry. Kate Tortland [00:32:16]: That's Blueberry, b l u b r r y. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:20]: Thinking of launching a podcast, want your episodes to be deployed smoothly, go to blueberry.com, type in the word fashion, and get a deal on us. Kate Tortland [00:32:28]: Just put in the word fashion. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:29]: Blueberry always host fly. Mhmm. Right. And right now as we speak, do you have, what, 3 offerings of pocket squares? 4. Daniele Antoniella [00:32:40]: We have 4. Okay. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:42]: Yeah. Okay. Right. Kate Tortland [00:32:43]: But each one has 3 colorways. Daniele Antoniella [00:32:46]: Yeah. Correct. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:48]: Okay. So 4 so technically, you have 4 different scenes with different colors is is my point. Kate Tortland [00:32:55]: Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:32:55]: Yeah. So so as a result, it sounds like what you're saying is your product runs are very small so far. Kate Tortland [00:33:02]: Yes. Yes. Reginald Ferguson [00:33:04]: And and your issue is since it's just just a 2 person show currently, how do you scale? Kate Tortland [00:33:11]: Yeah. I mean, how do we part of it is how do we get get out there? I mean, going to show I mean, obviously, because of COVID, that has put a damper on a lot of our push to, you know, get into other stores. We had meetings set up and deals signed with companies, and then things fell through, as I know we've talked about before. So now that things are finally looking a little bit better, we're just kind of having to take a step back and reevaluate and say, okay, well, now what do we wanna do with this? And and can we make this? Is it possible to make this something that is sustainable? Because right now, I mean, it's good. It's just not I mean, it's it's more of a passion project at this point, I would say. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:33:59]: I saw recently on your Instagram, it seemed that you're very sad because you launched in COVID. Am I correct? Kate Tortland [00:34:09]: It was before COVID. Yeah, I think that was what what year is it? Daniele Antoniella [00:34:20]: We launched, I would say, a few just few months before COVID about Was Kate Tortland [00:34:27]: it 2,000 20 or was it did we launch Daniele Antoniella [00:34:30]: 2019, we launched. Kate Tortland [00:34:34]: It was winter yeah. We were supposed to launch with the rake in 2019 December or 2020th January 2020, was it? January 2020. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:34:48]: Okay. Alright. I missed it by a month. I had February 2020. Kate Tortland [00:34:52]: Yeah. Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:34:55]: So and you mentioned The Rake. So I know they're one of many names, brands that you were collaborating, but obviously in the classic menswear space, we all know that's the brand. Kate Tortland [00:35:09]: It's the brand. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:35:11]: It's the brand. So tell us a story about how the collaboration almost happened and do you think it will be revisited? I'm not trying to I'm not trying to pick a scab, Kate. Kate Tortland [00:35:23]: No. No. It's it's just that I was thinking more I mean, it's one of those it's one of was one of those things where, you know, you you you feel like, you know, the is one of those, princess diaries moments where you're like, this can't be real, and it was, and then it wasn't. So, I mean so we we hadn't launched yet. This is summer 2,000 19. Yeah. We were about to go to Italy, to visit his family and to do some product shots actually because we were preparing to launch that year, and we were thinking to launch that fall, so fall of 2019. So we were headed to Italy to take shots, of the products in their locations, in their home environment where they belonged, do some marketing promo. Kate Tortland [00:36:25]: We wanted to build up the brand before we launched, just kind of get, you know, get the ball rolling a little bit. And we got a message in our DMs. The one of the Rake Scouts slid into our DMs, and I almost didn't check it because it came through as a message request, and I I'm bad at checking those. And it was an account that had no followers, so I thought it was spam. Daniele Antoniella [00:36:48]: Right. True. Kate Tortland [00:36:49]: So I had no had no profile picture, no followers, no post. And I'm like, this this instead of on this person from The Rake, would you send us an email? And I'm like, this is totally a scam, but whatever. I'll you know? I didn't even tell Danielle at first, because I'm like, this is probably nothing. But I sent the email, and Why did Daniele Antoniella [00:37:08]: you send the email? Kate Tortland [00:37:10]: Because I was just like, I I mean Oh. What would it hurt? I mean Oh. What are they gonna scam us out of? The nothing that we had? I mean so I sent the email, and it was legit. I mean, the email was, you know, a a name at the rakemagazine.com, and they responded. And I was like, Daniella, I mean, the the rake is interested in our pocket squares. So we emailed with them, and the 2 the 2 guys that we were in contact with both were Italian, and spoke fluent Italian. So they and Daniele Oh, yeah. Connected right off the bat. Kate Tortland [00:37:50]: And we scheduled a call, and, they we signed a contract, and they they ordered, a 100 pocket squares. And they wanted to do a feature and have us launch, January of 2020 with them. Daniele Antoniella [00:38:08]: So Nice. Kate Tortland [00:38:10]: You know, we we told them, you know, we were gonna need a few months. We still haven't even done any marketing for these yet. We haven't even hit the button in on production then when December rolled around, we got back in touch with them, and they were like, you know, we're gonna have to hit pause for a bit. We're not sure. We're we're going through some changes in our directorship, managing. And then when January, February rolled around, it was towards the end of January, I think, that we were supposed to launch. That's when the rumors of COVID started floating around, and, they didn't use that as an excuse, But, literally 2 weeks after that, Italy shut down, the EU shut down, everything kind of, you know, things things started hitting the fan then. Reginald Ferguson [00:39:14]: Sure. Kate Tortland [00:39:15]: So I'm not sure. I don't think they they knew exactly what was happening. I think there was other things going on there too, but, you know, they they were saying, let's revisit this. So we're not sure still, you know, then obviously COVID hit, and it's not like we're not we're not gonna be reaching out to them, you know, during the middle of a pandemic because, you know, retailers were struggling as it was. So Reginald Ferguson [00:39:39]: Sure. Kate Tortland [00:39:39]: You know, we'll see. We don't know. I mean, nothing's off the table. Right? I mean, they liked them for a reason. Right. Reginald Ferguson [00:39:46]: You Kate Tortland [00:39:46]: know? And that was a nice boost for us at the very beginning, I think, at least for me. Daniele Antoniella [00:39:50]: I'm Yeah. That was pretty cool. Absolutely. Kate Tortland [00:39:54]: I mean, here we are. We have no product, nothing, and they're saying, oh, give us some. And we're like, what? You're the biggest menswear, like, company, you know, sartorial company in the in this industry. You know? It was kind of wild to have them reach out to us. So Daniele Antoniella [00:40:12]: Oh, pretty cool. Kate Tortland [00:40:13]: So we'll see. I don't know. You never know. Reginald Ferguson [00:40:16]: No. Exactly. I mean, it's not it's not over, and your and your story isn't over. Kate Tortland [00:40:22]: No. And it yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:40:25]: And I Kate Tortland [00:40:25]: mean, and they're they're we we didn't do do this, you know, expecting that or going into this thinking that, you know, our our plans weren't dependent on them, essentially. So Yeah. It wasn't they they were in a nice addition, and it would have been great, obviously, for our brand recognition and, you know, to launch us into the the menswear world, but, you know, we we we went on without that because, you know, the reason we started this was our love of the product and the love of design and the love of fashion for Daniele. So, you know, as long as we had those reasons to keep going, you know, despite there being a pandemic and despite there being, you know, some crushed hopes, you know, the the the passion was still there, so we're we're we're still hopeful. Daniele Antoniella [00:41:20]: Yeah. Yeah. The passion is not gonna die. Just No. Yeah. I mean, that it definitely would have been an amazing addition to it, but, you know, it's all right. We'll survive. We are still alive. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:33]: Exactly. So, you know, the your path and your passion continues. Daniele Antoniella [00:41:39]: Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:40]: But you did you did hit on something. And like I said, I was looking at your Insta to prepare for us conversing, you haven't been able to travel Daniele Antoniella [00:41:51]: Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:41:51]: For obvious reasons. Mhmm. Mhmm. And we're looking at 4 pocket squares that are literally the physical and artistic representation of places that you have been together. Daniele Antoniella [00:42:04]: Yeah. Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:42:07]: And like you said, Kate, a new edition every year? Maybe some brands can do that, but you probably can't do that right now. What is the timetable for the 2 of you to potentially go back to it, Dalia, to be reinspired to figure out new product offerings? Kate Tortland [00:42:31]: Well, I mean, we're headed back this summer. Daniele Antoniella [00:42:34]: Yeah. We will be back in July. Yeah. Kate Tortland [00:42:37]: I mean, we we we can travel, because he's a citizen, And, I mean, we actually saw today that Italy is hopefully going to be opening up to tourists starting mid May, with with some limitations, I think, but their their their, sector of tourism has taken such a huge hit. They they can't go through another year without, you know, some kind of tourism, and I think now that vaccinations are happening, they're they're a little bit more open to that. So we're gonna be back for the month of July, for for various reasons, but one of the main ones is to be there and to kind of sit and be reinspired and do a lot of drawings, do a lot of sketching, do a lot of planning and and talking, and maybe even meeting with some some brands over there, some some stores over there and and, you know, just hears hear from them what they're looking for and, be re immersed in that in that environment, because it is hard. You do start to feel disconnected when you're when your whole brand is based on, you know, being inspired and you're no longer inspired. How do you create? You you can, but and I did that entire, Florence, our our most recent design, which we, launched this year. I did that entirely this year, obviously, without being there, so I'm able to find inspiration. I think that it I feel like it will be more, it will feel different when and the drawings and the ideas themselves will feel more alive when they're coming from direct inspiration rather than from remembered inspiration. So we'll see. Kate Tortland [00:44:29]: I mean, inspiration is one of those tough things. Being an artist, your job is your passion, and it's based on you being inspired or not, and you can't force yourself to be inspired. So but at the same time, it's your job. So you have to be consistent, but inspiration isn't consistent. It's it's a very tricky cycle. Daniele Antoniella [00:44:48]: Yeah. That's that's right. Yep. Reginald Ferguson [00:44:51]: Will you have the ability like my point is, what's the itinerary for July? How many weeks? How many places, you know, how many cities or towns? Have you figured that out yet? Kate Tortland [00:45:06]: I mean, we're there for a full month. Daniele Antoniella [00:45:07]: We yeah. We're there for a full month. It's it's, we're definitely going to eat a few places. It's our Kate Tortland [00:45:15]: Hit. Daniele Antoniella [00:45:16]: Hit. Yeah. Kate Tortland [00:45:17]: It it sound like he said eat. Oh. We're gonna eat a few places. We will eat in You want me Reginald Ferguson [00:45:23]: to eat You'll want Kate Tortland [00:45:24]: me to eat when you're going through Reginald Ferguson [00:45:25]: a few places. Daniele Antoniella [00:45:26]: We'll eat. Oh, yeah. We'll get back there. Reginald Ferguson [00:45:28]: That's super. So that's why yeah. I know a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah, that's gonna happen. So I'm drinking too. I mean Daniele Antoniella [00:45:34]: Oh, I love it. Yeah. Kate Tortland [00:45:37]: I mean, I think it's hard to entirely plan right now. I mean, as of now, you you know, we're we have to wait and see what the restrictions are. I mean, even currently, there's, bans on traveling between regions. So I don't think that will be the case then. Daniele Antoniella [00:45:55]: Yeah. Kate Tortland [00:45:55]: But, you know, things are have been so unpredictable this year that, you know, we're kind of waiting to see probably a little bit closer what we're what we're going to be able to get to, but, I mean, I think Florence for sure. I mean, his parents live, in Lazydio, which is pretty central, so we can kind of get to a lot of different, locations from there. Daniele Antoniella [00:46:19]: Should go to the we're probably gonna eat wanna go to the south. Kate Tortland [00:46:24]: Yeah. It would be nice to Daniele Antoniella [00:46:25]: go to the south. Sorry, Liz. Kate Tortland [00:46:28]: One of our like Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:46:30]: Oh, no. Go on. Go on. Kate Tortland [00:46:31]: Well, I I think one of our hopes is to do a a pocket square that has some, seaside themes. You know, obviously, Amalfi is pretty iconic. Daniele Antoniella [00:46:44]: More I probably would say more unique, but, like, yes, southern areas more like down south. I'm not sure, like, if it's gonna be Amalfi. That's probably too, Kate Tortland [00:46:57]: touristy. Daniele Antoniella [00:46:59]: Yeah. Touristy, but like too how do you say it? Too It's overdone? Yeah. I mean, I don't know how to say it. It's too like it's it's just it's known. I mean Kate Tortland [00:47:12]: Yeah. So Reginald Ferguson [00:47:13]: that means It's too popular. Daniele Antoniella [00:47:15]: Yeah. Too popular. I would like to do something that's more like, you know, not being done as much, but but we want to do something cliche. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Daniele Antoniella [00:47:29]: Yeah. I wanna do something that encapsulates better the southern South Italy. I'm off it's touristy, it's not South Italy. It's I don't know. Like, it's hard to explain this, but, like, it's more like a tourist spot. It's not like Yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:47:45]: I understand. I think. Kate Tortland [00:47:47]: Yeah. I think. I don't know. I not from there. Reginald Ferguson [00:47:50]: The good news is you're the perfect tour guide, Daniele. Kate Tortland [00:47:53]: So yeah. We'll figure it out. Well, Daniele Antoniella [00:47:56]: besides, I want it to be unique and different. Like, everyone will respect Amalfi. You know? Kate Tortland [00:48:02]: Yeah. I mean, for you know, obviously, one of our main pocket squares is Orvieto, which is a beautiful city in, Umbria, but it's not, it's not Rome. I mean, we do have Rome because it's, I mean, that's iconic as well, But, you know, we do like to try and have places that are a little less known to have kind of more of that rustic, more untouched Italy quality to it. We're not just limited to Italy either. I mean, part of our vision for our brand is to do pocket squares and designs from all over. We would love to to expand our our ranges outside of Italy and and be inspired by lots of other places. I mean, there's so many interesting patterns and and colors and themes and motifs Yeah. From so many different places. Daniele Antoniella [00:49:00]: One of the points I wanted to do was, like, just basically from a a a desert, only desert, all sand. Just Kate Tortland [00:49:10]: sanding that of it. He's joking. Reginald Ferguson [00:49:15]: I'm like, how Daniele Antoniella [00:49:15]: are you gonna pull that off? Kate Tortland [00:49:17]: Rich is like, I will not be buying that. Daniele Antoniella [00:49:20]: I was like, well, it's gonna have Reginald Ferguson [00:49:22]: to be a lot of lines, Kate. You know, put a lot of lines in that one. Kate Tortland [00:49:25]: It'll be pointillism. Just just thousands of dots. Daniele Antoniella [00:49:28]: Yeah. That's right. Kate Tortland [00:49:31]: That will not be fun to draw. Daniele Antoniella [00:49:33]: Oh my god. No. I'm I'm joking. But, yeah, one of our goals was to do, like, different places in Europe, not just Italy. Kate Tortland [00:49:41]: But I I will say that, you know, one of our one of the things that we're considering doing is some pocket squares that are more, pattern based, solely pattern based. Do do, like, a smaller little capsule collection perhaps. And once you do one kind of repeat pattern, it is faster to recreate that than, you know, just, you know, all these sort of intricate scenes connecting to each other. And they and they have a different feel. They have a different look, and they they can be worn differently. They and they can be more mass appealing as well. Yeah. So we because that Saint Francis, the the basilica was based in pattern, there are so many gorgeous patterns that are there. Kate Tortland [00:50:29]: One of our ideas upcoming would be to create maybe, you know, 2 or 3 pocket square designs that are solely pattern based, but a unique spin even on that. So we have to kind of explore what that will look like, but that might be coming sooner than perhaps another full, one of our full designs. Daniele Antoniella [00:50:51]: Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll be basically, patents not just from Assisi but like the idea was like patterns from different churches in Italy. So and it will be like basically not just a single pattern on the poker square but it will be like like 2 or 3 different patterns, intrinsicating each other, like, sort of, like, you know, Woven together? Yes. Correct. Yeah. It wouldn't be just a single, but it will be something more like like, you know, elaborated, obviously. Okay. Correct. Daniele Antoniella [00:51:28]: Because that's what what our brand is anyways. We wouldn't do something just Kate Tortland [00:51:33]: Yeah. We're not going to dumb it down. Right. Just but, you know, the the the the large designs do take so long, and it would be nice to have some variety. We've had we've done some polls on on Insta, you know, who would be interested in seeing something more pattern based from us as well as these more image based pieces, and it was almost a 100% yes. So it would be interesting even as from a design perspective to see how can I take this this concept, this pattern concept that has been done over and over again in pocket squares and do it completely differently, Reginald Ferguson [00:52:14]: and in Kate Tortland [00:52:14]: a way and then do it in a way that fits with what we're already doing, that doesn't feel foreign to the work that we're currently doing? I don't know. We'll we'll have to see. Yeah. Right. Mhmm. Reginald Ferguson [00:52:25]: Right. It sounds it sounds like a challenge. So to be clear, a successful trip in July means for you, Kate, 2 or 3 sketches of different places? Kate Tortland [00:52:38]: I I mean, I would love to come back. I so the way I process things, at least, you know, so far, is I I have my little sketchbook, and I I when we travel to different locations, I I do pen and ink sketches in my sketchbook. And then once I feel adequately inspired by a place and feel like I have enough content to go from, then I I take that back, you know, to my studio, and I I can really work with those images, obviously, with photos as well that I take while I'm in those places. So they're not usually full sketches of a full pocket square that I'll do on location, but they'll be the pieces that eventually get woven together later on. Reginald Ferguson [00:53:22]: Okay. Kate Tortland [00:53:23]: Yeah. Because the the drawings themselves are actually fairly large. They're usually 20 by what are what are my drawing pad sizes? They're they're huge. I mean, they're they're they're pretty big. They're not they're not massive. They're they're probably Daniele Antoniella [00:53:40]: Yeah. That big. Kate Tortland [00:53:40]: 20 by 20 Yeah. Yeah. 24 by 24, probably half again as big as the resulting pocket square will be. So it's not convenient to bring that on, you know, on public transportation or lug that in a suitcase. So, I mean, I have done it before, so we might do it again. I don't know. It depends on depends on how we feel. Daniele Antoniella [00:54:06]: Alright. It's it's a process then, like, you put together from different drawings and and it's it's it's nice to see from beginning to end, but I do definitely think that a pattern collection would be great. Something that's more, because I just feel that it kind of will appeal more to like a larger crowd. Because I just feel like it's not that what we are doing right now, it's it's more, suitable specific to people that are just like have an artistic soul, you know, an artistic eye. Meanwhile, patterns, those are something more like that just everyone will wear. Like They're Kate Tortland [00:54:52]: easily more easily adaptable. Yeah. But, yeah, I think a successful trip on this on this occasion would be to have a few maybe one new 1 or 2 new locations for an eventual, image based pocket square. And then I would love to be able to study some some more of those patterns, like Daniella mentioned, in different churches throughout, the regions that we that we visit. So Tuscany is a a place that we go to regularly when we visit, different you know, a lot of times, we just stumble across places, and it's the unexpected places that you find that you discover the inspiration. So, we'll see what what we find. A lot of it's a treasure hunt. Reginald Ferguson [00:55:34]: Yeah. Well Yeah. Sounds like it. Yeah. We'll keep our fingers crossed. Kate Tortland [00:55:39]: For sure. Well, we're gonna be documenting a lot of it. We'll we'll show the inspiration and and the drawings and the sketching and how that all those pieces kind of come together into a final from the very beginning to the very end. We've never really done that before. So I've sort of shown bits and pieces of the process, but, seeing seeing that process on location is a totally different story. So Daniele Antoniella [00:56:02]: Yeah. The last the Kate Tortland [00:56:04]: the last time we were there was more, of a brand photograph session than an inspiration gathering session. So Daniele Antoniella [00:56:13]: Yeah. That is true. Kate Tortland [00:56:14]: The this is going to be a very different a different trip. So Reginald Ferguson [00:56:18]: we'll look forward to it. See you on the gram. Kate Tortland [00:56:21]: Oh, yeah. Reginald Ferguson [00:56:22]: So I have a question for both of you in light of what you do. What's the top fashion tip you would give the everyday man so he can look his best? Kate Tortland [00:56:34]: I have one. Go for it. Daniele Antoniella [00:56:38]: I have one of many, but one I think Just one. I think a very good one is, I have to explain this right, color stays on shirts. I noticed that it's very hard to when people are wearing or either a sport jacket or a suit jacket, the color on the shirt tend to bunch up or go and go underneath the jacket or, like, just being, like, not straight. So the way to fix that is magnetic collar stays. They basically just made the shirt stand up. They have like, they are like just, basically stainless steel and they have a magnet that you put, behind it in the other side and they just made the collar stands up. Kate Tortland [00:57:35]: That's so sweet. It's great, Daniele Antoniella [00:57:36]: and it looks so sharp when the collar stands if you're not wearing a tights. Kate Tortland [00:57:41]: I love that your fashion tip has nothing to do with pocket squares. Reginald Ferguson [00:57:44]: That's no. It's fine. We said you had once. Daniele Antoniella [00:57:47]: It's so brand new. Reginald Ferguson [00:57:48]: We're we're dealing with that one. Daniele Antoniella [00:57:50]: I just did it in my Reginald Ferguson [00:57:51]: head. No. You did you did fine. Kate Tortland [00:57:53]: You're killing Daniele Antoniella [00:57:53]: me. I'm totally Now now Reginald Ferguson [00:57:55]: now we're gonna give something to Kate. See we'll see how she we'll see how she represents the brand with Kate Tortland [00:58:02]: it. I Daniele Antoniella [00:58:05]: can't I can't I can't give you one specific to our brand. Reginald Ferguson [00:58:08]: No. No. Kate Tortland [00:58:18]: So squares. Sorry. Go ahead, Lucy. Daniele Antoniella [00:58:24]: I'm sorry. Kate Tortland [00:58:26]: Okay. As for me Reginald Ferguson [00:58:28]: So what does always be fly mean to Kate Tortland [00:58:32]: you? Oh. Always be fly. Daniele Antoniella [00:58:34]: What does that mean? Kate Tortland [00:58:37]: Means, like, always be cool. Oh. Oh. Oh. You need to learn Daniele Antoniella [00:58:42]: I I I'm always cool. I don't need to do anything. Kate Tortland [00:58:44]: Oh my god. Oh, I mean, I I don't know if it has anything to do with what you wear. At the end of the day, I think it's how you walk and how you carry yourself, but I think probably be intentional with what you're wearing. I know that's pretty, generic. No. But Daniele Antoniella [00:59:10]: attitude. That's for sure. Kate Tortland [00:59:11]: And I mean, I do think I mean, in terms of of how I've been discovering it for myself, I think accessorizing actually is really important. I've started using our pieces just like tying them to my handbag or something like that. And just those little small details, I think, make such a big difference, whether it's a pocket square or whether it's, you know, a detail on a pair of sneakers or something like that. I think those those little those little touches really, it that that goes towards intentionality. Mhmm. I think it shows that you are intentional in what you're doing. Daniele Antoniella [00:59:45]: Yep. Kate Tortland [00:59:45]: And that you do pay attention to those small things. Those things like magnetic collar stays. Daniele Antoniella [00:59:49]: Yeah. No. I agree. I think accessories are, like, essential in outfit are, like, literally what makes In Kate Tortland [00:59:57]: a fly outfit. Yeah. I mean, you can have an outfit, but it may not be that fly. Daniele Antoniella [01:00:01]: Yeah. Kate Tortland [01:00:01]: But then when you when you Daniele Antoniella [01:00:02]: Accessories makes it, like, good shoes, good watches, a nice, like, bracelet, a nice Kate Tortland [01:00:11]: I love the way you wear your watch with, like, 2 bracelets on the same wrist. Like, it just, you know Yeah. It adds that special touch. Daniele Antoniella [01:00:20]: Poker squares, you know, there is a reason why there is a pocket in the jacket. You know that Americans put their pants in it, but, like, it should have a pogo square instead. I know I know you're great, Reginald. It's not funny. Kate Tortland [01:00:45]: I mean, for me, obviously, I don't I don't wear men's fashion, Daniele Antoniella [01:00:48]: but No. No. Kate Tortland [01:00:50]: But, from what I've seen and for myself, what I've learned, because I was never much of a fashionista myself, I would kind of just, you know, whatever whatever from Walmart that I could find that fit was good for me. Now no longer, but because now I look I look like a bum next to him in his crazy suits. But I I have noticed, like, such a difference even in the confidence and the way that I feel when I do intentionally put together an outfit. So I can understand it now. I can understand the the value in it and the value in these things that a lot of people, I think, would think are superfluous, and, you know, I think there's value in it. I mean, obviously, as an artist, I I see the value in art in general, so I don't know why I had this prejudice against fashion. What's the difference? Daniele Antoniella [01:01:41]: Oh, you did that prejudice Kate Tortland [01:01:42]: against I just didn't care. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't understand why people cared so much about it, or why they'd spend money on it. Daniele Antoniella [01:01:50]: Yeah. It's a fetish. Kate Tortland [01:01:51]: And yet people are paying $2,000 for a painting of mine, and I have no problem with that. Yeah. So Daniele Antoniella [01:01:56]: at the Kate Tortland [01:01:56]: end of the day, I think it's another way of expressing your creative personality. Daniele Antoniella [01:02:01]: Yeah. I agree. Kate Tortland [01:02:02]: That is. So Daniele Antoniella [01:02:03]: I think everyone has different passion and some of us has it for clothing and some of us has it for other things. It's just, you know, there is no right or wrong. It's just, yeah. Reginald Ferguson [01:02:16]: Good answer, guys. Antonella apparel, style creatively, wear with love. Kate Tortland [01:02:25]: That's us. Daniele Antoniella [01:02:26]: Oh, yeah.